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Based on Lenny's Podcast data
Lenny's Knowledge Sketch · #54

Drive It Like
It's Stolen

Max Schoening
Head of Product, Notion
Ex-GitHub (Design + Engineering) · Heroku (Design) · Google PM · 2× Founder
MAY 1 2026
Agency

Drive It Like
It's Stolen

TINKER MAKE CHANGE the through-line is making
"One day you wake up and you realize the world is made up by people no smarter than you."
  • The biggest through-line I've found is making
  • Tinker. A home-cooked meal is a form of tinkering
  • When you get better at making things, people pay attention
  • It awakens you to the idea that you can just change things
  • "Could you drive Notion like it's stolen?"
Drive Notion like it's stolen You're not the founder, product-market fit was already there. But you can still contribute in a way where you feel agency, not stuck asking "what's my role?"
Product Vision

Software That
Bends to You

Malleable software
Works for the people using it
You have ownership of your compute life
You can just make tools
Communal, not just individual
The app world today
Designed by "the ivory tower in Cupertino"
Every layer glued together
A little square on your phone
Change a little bit, usually not possible
"Software that works closer to the interest of the people that use it than the interest of the corporation that makes it."
The awakening People are realising they can just make their own tools. But it has to sit on top of a platform that encourages this, otherwise everyone ends up with their own individual little tool and no communal software.
Craft

Know the
Material

"The reason I like thinking in code is because it forces you to consider the medium."
  • "I actually don't care at all whether designers write code that lands in production"
  • Code is the material AI agents are made of, currently
  • Take the PM who gets agent loops over the one who tweaks CSS
  • Coding harnesses now resemble the operating systems of the '90s
The point isn't Shipping to production.
The point is Becoming a master of the material, not a cog in the delivery mechanism for the idea.
Product DNA

Every Great Product Has
One Tiny Thing

That tiny thing is irreducibly the soul of the product. If you lose it, you lose everything.
GitHub The Pull Request
"This idea that anyone can suggest something to you and sort of you see it." The tiny core of the whole product.
Heroku git push heroku master
"A very simple one-liner that went from the thing on my computer, now I have a URL. That's so intoxicating that everything else sort of flows from there."
Notion Blocks + slash commands
"At Notion it's the blocks and the slash commands." That's the tiny core, everything else in the product orbits it.
Dropbox Menu bar sync icon
"So good at syncing you could even use it as a symbol for 'do I have internet or not.'" Then they tried to increase the surface area, and it lost its way.
"All the great products have something tiny that is a superpower."
Craft

Taste Is
Learnable

"Taste actually means you're able to run a virtual machine in your head where given an idea, you can predict for a certain ingroup whether they're going to like it or not."
  • You just have to do reps. It's almost like training a model
  • Decide what your in-group is, then get good at emulating them
  • Dieter Rams: design should be first useful, then beautiful
  • "You know it when you see it", nobody argued the first iPhone was obviously good
Obviously good Notion has stickers that say just make "obviously good" stuff. The mistake is going into a cave for six months to get there. Iterate in the open, get really good at iterating.
AI Era

The First 10%
Is Free Now

🎯 Shots on goal
AI compresses the cost of starting. More starts = more chances to find the thing that works. Ship early, learn constantly, double down on what's real.
🔁 Incremental correctness
Don't isolate for 6 months. The path to right is through wrong, done quickly. Iterate in the open. Every version teaches you something the previous version couldn't.
☁️ SaaS is not dead
The "as a service" part still matters enormously. Hosting, reliability, collaboration, continuous updates, AI generates the code, but the service is the product. Don't eulogize too early.
🧠 We already have UBI
Hot take: "We already have universal basic income. It's called knowledge work." Sitting in an air-conditioned room typing into a computer for a lot of money, the safety net is the job.
"The first 10% of every project are now free."
Based on Max Schoening's episode on Lenny's Podcast. All ideas on this page are from the episode.Watch on YouTubeFollow @mschoening on X
GO DEEPER IN THE EPISODE
01:55 The origin story of designers coding at Notion06:30 How much designers and PMs are shipping today08:24 The balance between shipping code and strategic work10:32 Why agency will help you thrive in the AI era11:49 Examples of high agency at Notion13:52 What we might lose as roles merge15:56 Advice for developing agency17:42 Malleable software explained20:43 The Dieter Rams video and design philosophy24:00 The SaaS apocalypse debate28:25 How product building has changed in the past two years30:27 What’s next in how we build products34:16 Token spend and ROI conversations37:39 Getting people to change how they work39:04 Max’s AI stack41:41 Which roles AI will transform next44:26 When companies will start caring about ROI48:38 Why Notion AI is so successful51:47 How to ship more quickly while maintaining quality56:40 Building taste through iterations1:00:09 What matters most in building successful products1:05:06 Using the jobs-to-be-done framework1:07:28 Hot take on universal basic income1:09:26 What Max would do with AGI1:10:53 Contrarian corner1:13:14 Failure corner1:16:20 Advice for young people in Silicon Valley1:19:20 Lightning round and final thoughts
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