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Ethan Smith
CEO, Graphite · Lenny's go-to for SEO and Answer Engine Optimization
SEP 14 2025
The New Channel

The Google Rule Doesn't Hold

MANY CITATIONSLLM SUMMARIZESMENTIONED-MOST WINS
"You need to get mentioned as many times as possible. The LLM is summarizing many citations, so the URL that would win on Google won't win here."
  • AEO = Answer Engine Optimization: showing up as the answer in ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, Perplexity, Google AI Mode
  • On Google, the top blue link wins. On an LLM, whoever is mentioned in the most citations wins
  • Even if your URL is cited first, you can lose the answer if a competitor is mentioned in more sources overall
  • Ethan prefers "Answer" over "Generative" Engine Optimization: narrower, cleaner term
Framework

What Actually Works,
In Rank Order

1.Straight SEO (still the base)2.YouTube videos in your space3.Reddit threads and comments+ affiliates, blogs, other sites where people already talk about you
"Stuff that worked especially well: straight SEO, number one. Number two, YouTube videos. Then Reddit optimization."
  • Traditional SEO still helps — getting cited for free from your own top-ranking pages
  • YouTube is the second-highest-value channel; LLMs read the transcripts and cite them
  • Reddit is number three; a well-placed thread can pull you into an answer immediately
  • Ethan's Webflow work: they push all three simultaneously, not one at a time
Early-stage advantageUnlike Google (typically Series B before SEO pays off), AEO wins can land within a day. A new YC company can show up in an answer tomorrow because everyone is already talking about them.
In Practice

The Webflow Working Example

  • The setup: Ethan and Graphite run Webflow's SEO and are seeing wins on the AEO side as a byproduct
  • The stack: continue investing in traditional SEO, then push YouTube videos in the same topic space, then push Reddit
  • The compounding: good SEO wins translate directly to AEO citations, for free
  • The bar: the goal is not "rank #1 for a keyword." It is "be mentioned in the sources the LLM is likely to summarize"
Ask "What's the best tool for X?"

The tool mentioned in the most citations gets named first in the answer. That is Ethan's model for how these systems pick winners.

The head vs Google

On Google you need years and a Series A to compete for head terms. On AEO, a well-timed Reddit thread or a YC launch post can put you into an answer within a day.

Playbook

How to Get Started This Week

  • Ask ChatGPT and Perplexity your top ten category questions. Note who gets mentioned and how many times
  • Keep investing in the SEO pages that already rank; they carry into AEO for free
  • Publish YouTube videos in your topic space; LLMs read the transcripts and cite from them
  • Get into the Reddit threads people actually visit for your category; a strong comment can put you into answers
Why now (early stage)Traditional SEO is a Series A-plus game. AEO is not. A brand-new company launching this week can be in an answer tomorrow. Do not wait.
Contrarian

Ethan's AEO Myths

✗Rank #1 = win the answerINSTEAD →✓ Even the #1 citation loses the LLM answer if a competitor is mentioned in more sources overall.
✗Only big brands can win hereINSTEAD →✓ Early-stage companies can win in a day. All you need is a well-placed thread or launch post while people are already talking.
✗Skip SEO, go straight to AEOINSTEAD →✓ Traditional SEO is the base and it carries into AEO for free. What worked "especially well" for Webflow: SEO first.
✗YouTube and Reddit are marketing side-showsINSTEAD →✓ They are #2 and #3 for AEO. LLMs read the transcripts and the threads and cite them straight into answers.
Based on Ethan Smith's episode on Lenny's Podcast. All ideas on this page are from the episode.Watch on YouTubeFollow @ethan_l_s on X
GO DEEPER IN THE EPISODE
04:34 The changing landscape of SEO06:19 AEO (answer engine optimization) vs. GEO (generative engine optimization)08:13 The impact of AEO11:51 How early-stage startups can win at AEO14:34 The quality of AEO leads15:35 On-site vs. off-site traffic16:32 Reddit’s role in AEO and avoiding spam20:11 How AI models use citations (RAG)21:41 Key principles for winning at AEO25:00 Avoiding hyper-SEOed content, and the importance of originality28:55 Actionable AEO playbook: steps and experiments33:35 Tracking, measuring, and share of voice38:34 Adapting AEO for B2B, commerce, and early-stage companies41:11 Is letting AI index your content good?43:06 Experimentation, control groups, and measuring results46:15 The future of AEO, SEO, and search channels51:35 AI-generated content: what works and what doesn’t55:25 The dangers of infinite AI derivatives58:44 The future: convergence of LLMs and search01:00:40 Help-center optimization and the long tail01:03:18 Lightning round and final thoughts
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