The PM-Engineer
Relationship: Why Engineers Hate You

Camille Fournier

CTO Rent The Runway, VP Tech Goldman Sachs, Author "The Manager's Path"

AUG 2024

The Core Problem

4 Things PMs Do That Annoy Engineers

RESENTMENT

Hoarding credit, you get visibility, engineers don't get recognition
Ignoring details, acting like technical work doesn't matter
Playing telephone, inserting yourself between stakeholders and engineers
Controlling ideas, keeping engineers out of product decisions

"When you act like technical details don't matter, it shows a real lack of empathy for the work that engineers are doing. It can be very off-putting."

PM Credibility

How to Actually Win Engineer Trust

Share credit actively: Step back and let engineers present their work
Care about details: You don't need to know everything, but show you respect the craft
Connect directly: If you're saying "let me get back to you" constantly, connect people directly instead
Invite ideas: The best PMs aren't threatened by smart engineers having good ideas

Why engineers propose rewritesEngineers over-engineer and propose rewrites when they're locked out of product decisions. They need a creative outlet. Give them one.

The actual jobBuild relationships with engineers by working alongside them on real problems. PMs are successful when engineers respect what you bring to the table.

The Rewrite Trap

Why Rewrites Almost Always Fail

Engineers massively underestimate migration time from old system to new system
You still have to support the old system while building the new one
If the old system doesn't need feature work, why spend millions rewriting it?
Most rewrites are engineering solutions to organizational problems
The best approach: staged, surgical upgrades (fix the recommendation system, not everything)

The key question

If I could ignore this system forever without harming the business, is it actually worth rewriting? If the answer is yes, you have a real problem.

The hidden cost

Rewrites kill feature velocity for 6 months to 2 years. That's not acceptable in most cases. Instead: invest in incremental evolution.

"People really underestimate the migration time. Engineers notoriously, notoriously massively underestimate the work to move from old to new system. And you still have to support both."

Management

Fewer One-On-Ones, More Impact

One-on-ones with direct reports: sacred, weekly/biweekly
One-on-ones with everyone else: scale poorly, often wastes time
Stakeholder 1-on-1s hide the real issues, unhappy stakeholders don't hear from happy ones
Group meetings work better for stakeholders and internal platforms
Stop doing one-on-ones just to fill your calendar. Respect everyone's time.

Camille's principleAs you grow, you cannot scale a one-on-one relationship management approach. Move to groups and async channels instead.

Contrarian

The Management Myths

✗Management = FreedomINSTEAD →✓ Management is grueling. You're reacting to problems constantly, not making glorious decisions.

✗More work = Better resultsINSTEAD →✓ Overwork lets you avoid hard prioritization. Focus on actual important work, not 60-hour weeks.

✗Do one-on-ones with everyoneINSTEAD →✓ One-on-ones don't scale. Use groups and async. Respect your time and theirs.

✗Engineers can't do the product jobINSTEAD →✓ Engineers have good ideas. They just don't understand customer needs or business metrics. Teach them that.

Based on Camille Fournier's episode on Lenny's Podcast. All ideas on this page are from the episode.Watch on YouTube

GO DEEPER IN THE EPISODE

02:17 Common annoyances between PMs and engineers 07:09 Avoiding the telephone game 08:05 Hoarding ideas and over-engineering 09:55 The importance of involving engineers in ideation 11:37 The middle-person dilemma 14:21 Rewriting systems: a big trap?20:40 Engineering leadership lessons 36:02 Moving from IC to management 40:32 One-on-one meetings 45:10 Pushing beyond comfort zones 45:27 Building a balanced work culture 48:01 Effective time management strategies 54:15 Advice for platform team success 01:02:42 Platform team responsibilities 01:04:43 When to form a platform team 01:07:02 Thriving on a platform team 01:12:48 AI corner 01:17:03 Lightning round and final thoughts

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